Posts by Sail Away

i know, people are very different and have different levels of holds to the organization, but i'm insanely curious about how long an exposure to ttatt may marinate before culminating into an action to research further.. from your earliest memory of a planted seed due to an event, challenge from another person, accidental website hit... whatever... (the crack) to the time the ttatt became a reality, (the avalanche), how much time expired?.

i guess we have to remember that everyone here is a success story and that for many, it may be never.. .

Sail Away

The Truth Shall Set Us FREE! Welcome! What a horror story!

Phizzy - "I have looked back over my life and realize that the 'avalanche' was waiting to happen for decades. The cracks were many, the whole thing was unstable."

Yup. The cognitive dissonance literally nearly killed me—doctrinal issues, questioning the elders, letters to Bethel, injustice to others and to my family were all an avalanche in the making for decades.

Low point— Standing in a hospital bathroom in order to have a private conference call with two elders, pleading with them to show mercy and shepherd their sheep. Asking them to come and console my son and his MIL, because my DIL was fighting for her life, and I simply did not know how to help them. The elders didn’t want to come to the hospital, because my DIL was DF’d. A visit might give the impression that they were not upholding the disfellowshipping decision.

Desperation—The elders were too busy to talk to me during our local KH rebuild. I had to wait nearly 6 months. They thought I was challenging their decision to DF my son. When we finally met, they started to lay out all the WT articles that showed how to view a DF’d family member, including the fact that if we were in Ancient Israel, my son would have been stoned to death, and I wouldn’t be able to talk to him anyway. I was simply looking for emotional support following my son’s suicide attempt.

My last year in:

Doctrinal tipping point—The overlapping generation. My initial reaction, “That’s crap!”

Out-patient hospitalization for severe, recurrent clinical depression and PTSD.

Things came to a head, and something snapped. I could not stand to hear them say my family was going to die at Armageddon one more time. I knew I was NEVER going to shun my son—wasn’t going to happen.

Knew with every fiber of my being that I was in a cult while sitting at the District Convention. Walked away from that convention knowing fully that I was done.

Two weeks later I Goggled “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. It took me two weeks’ time to read and educate myself about TTATT. I knew I had made the right decision.

Sail Away

10

There won't be snow in Africa (xmas songs you hate)

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

ok so be a scrooge or grinch for 5 minutes.

you know you want to.. i loooove xmas songs but there are a few that make me cringe.. the old feed the world.

"there won't be snow in africa.

Sail Away

Rosemary Clooney-- Snow. Just shoot me now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpQE46neIXc

27

How can I ever leave this cult?

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

i've been out nearly two years but it's not out of me.

i am on school holidays now til february so i thought without work to worry about i can come off my medication.

i phased it slowly, starting in early november to avoid the physical side effects of coming down.

Sail Away

(((Julia Orwell)))

These are the things that have helped me over the last three plus years since my exit from the organization:

Buddhist Psychology

http://www.amazon.com/Wise-Heart-Universal-Teachings-Psychology/dp/0553382330/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418908056&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=the+awakened+heart+jack+kornfield

Insight Meditation

The Insight Meditation Society may have a Buddhist community (sangha) in your area. http://www.dharma.org/

Mindfulness Meditation

The Now Effect http://elishagoldstein.com/

Mindfulness-based Stress Reduction

http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/

Tai chi/qigong

A Pet

Sleep, healthy diet, walks

45

can an unhappy married woman vent?

by sowhatnow in

i continue to be saddened by the fact that i am married to such a selfish man.. i want to know if i am the only wife who has no say when it comes to using the house she lives in for activities including other people.. .

let me explain.. yesterday my daugher who is 35 got a new puppy for my grandaughter who is 13. today my daughter and son in law are going to help my uncle at a job, and my granddaughter wanted to spend the day here, my daugher said shed bring her and the puppy over, i laughed and said 'your dad wont have that, ill have to go to your house'.. after all it will 'upset' the 2 cats they will hide all day [like they do anytime someone including my grandchild is in my home] .. i already knew that he would not like it if she brought the puppy over, [weve had dogs so its not like he hates them].

he doesnt care if his grandaughter would have enjoyed playing with the puppy over grandmas house, where she likes to be for a change, and that fact that id like to see what my cats would do when they saw a dog for the first time in thier lives.. maybe id have liked to play with the puppy .. when i said to my husband that my daughter said she wanted tp bring them over he said.

Sail Away

sowhatnow, I don't know you, and no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors. The thing I do know is that I have been where you are. You are stuck. A good therapist will help you get unstuck. JW doctrine teaches that couples should stay married no matter what. It teaches that we are worthless specks of dust and that any pursuit of personal interest that may bring us joy is "vanity" and a waste time. Life is short. I got out when I was 52 also. I'm making up for lost time rather than wasting away the rest of my life on regret.

I opened the WT Libray and typed in "speck of dust". This is the latest WT magazine reference recycling it's old vomit from 1957. This is what I grew up with. It is not truth, it is a manipulative lie to get people to serve WT corporate interests.

*** w97 2/15 p. 16 “The Whole Obligation of Man” ***

The Watchtower once made this insightful comment: “We should not waste this life on vanities . . . If this life is all there is, there is nothing important. This life is like a ball thrown into the air that soon falls into the dust again. It is a fleeting shadow, a fading flower, a blade of grass to be cut and soon withered. . . . On the scales of eternity our life span is a negligible speck. In the stream of time it is not even a healthy drop. Certainly [Solomon] is right when he reviews life’s many human concerns and activities and pronounces them vanity. We are so soon gone we might as well have never come, one of billions to come and go, with so few ever knowing we were here at all. This view is not cynical or somber or morose or morbid. It is truth, a fact to face, a practical view, if this life is all there is.”—August 1, 1957, page 472.

sowhatnow, " no fun, no sex, no date nite, no freinds ,no common intrests. so im basically single now."

I get that you really believe you are dependent and trapped financially because of poor health and lack of education. Please hear me when I tell you I was there. Your health and energy levels will improve when your depression is properly addressed.

Hold your husband to a higher standard. My husband is a much better husband now that I throw down the B*ll Sh*t Card when he tries to play the Headhip Card. Teach your husband how to treat you well. And before anyone jumps on me for maligning my husband on the Internet, please know that I leave my computer logged in to JWN, and we discuss my posts here and his posts on the ex-JW Reddit. I wouldn't say anything here that I haven't already said to his face.

sowhatnow, "Im not so rotten as to demand that my husband sell the house and give me half. though I can. he has not done anything in the past few years that any judge would consider good enough reason to demand he surrender half his assets."

You already own half of all community property. They are not "his assets" to "surrender". His actions in the last few years would not factor into any judge's decision, but they should factor into yours.

By the way, my therapist says the best lies have some element of truth to them. Yes, ultimately human life is infintesimally small in the universal scheme of things, but that doesn't mean the WT conculsions about that fact are truth. Enough said.

Wishing you happiness,

Sail Away

45

can an unhappy married woman vent?

by sowhatnow in

i continue to be saddened by the fact that i am married to such a selfish man.. i want to know if i am the only wife who has no say when it comes to using the house she lives in for activities including other people.. .

let me explain.. yesterday my daugher who is 35 got a new puppy for my grandaughter who is 13. today my daughter and son in law are going to help my uncle at a job, and my granddaughter wanted to spend the day here, my daugher said shed bring her and the puppy over, i laughed and said 'your dad wont have that, ill have to go to your house'.. after all it will 'upset' the 2 cats they will hide all day [like they do anytime someone including my grandchild is in my home] .. i already knew that he would not like it if she brought the puppy over, [weve had dogs so its not like he hates them].

he doesnt care if his grandaughter would have enjoyed playing with the puppy over grandmas house, where she likes to be for a change, and that fact that id like to see what my cats would do when they saw a dog for the first time in thier lives.. maybe id have liked to play with the puppy .. when i said to my husband that my daughter said she wanted tp bring them over he said.

Sail Away

kurtbethel: “You are a tenant who lives in a nice big house, rent free. Your husband is paying all the bills, and rightfully asserts his say over what goes on in his home. . . In all those years of easy life letting someone you don't love pay your bills, you never made a viable plan to change your situation. It looks like you set yourself up for this. How sad.”

sowhatnow, I am so sorry that you felt the need to defend yourself here on this forum due to such a uncalled for verbal assault. Most of us here understand that JWs marry young and for all the wrong reasons. Essentially, we enter into an arranged marriage. Maybe, it wasn’t arranged by our parents, the organization arranged it. We were taught to play by their rules.

besmart rightfully stated, “If you were raised a witness they set you up.... doesn't matter if you married a "worldly". The man is the "head".

Frankly, the headship principle is misogynistic crap from a patriarchal society! Marriage partners should be just that—partners. You have as much right to say what goes on in your family home as your husband does. Please don’t feel “guilty for not working full-time outside the home and getting a real paycheck.” Do you see how you have taken on your husband’s hurtful attitude toward yourself? No wonder you are depressed. You said you ran your home, raised your children and did back breaking house cleaning as well. You do deserve respect and affection, and yes, you can ask your husband to stop drinking. It is up to you to decide what behaviors you will accept and what behaviors are deal breakers for you. We set boundaries for ourselves, not others.

As JW wives, we were not taught to be assertive. We were essentially told to put up and shut up. It is not disrespectful to speak up for yourself. Please listen to the other posters who have encouraged you to get counseling. One of the best things I did for myself when I left was to go for Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) for my severe, recurrent clinical depression and PTSD. You will learn sorely needed communication and coping skills. In my opinion, it is more important right now for you to learn these skills than it is to go to marriage counseling with a man who likely doesn’t want to go to a therapist anyway. There is time enough for that later when you are feeling stronger.

The entire DBT program takes about 4-5 months. It is evidence-based therapy, and it works! Here is a link to the DBT handbook. The communication skill called DEAR MAN is on pages 20-21. It outlines how to ask for what you want in an assertive way.

http://www.bipolarsjuk.se/pdf/Handbook%20in%20DBT%20Group.pdf

Hugs,

Sail Away

34

Whose KH has the Blue Square jw.org on it?

by blondie in

jw
friends

i have been looking and finally saw the logo on the kh sign............. .

.

Sail Away

Yup! I drove by my former KH today out of curiosity. It just seems wierd! This is one of the oldest congregations in my state and is very conservative. I can't imagine what the members are thinking and feeling about all this nonsense.

This congregation has many skilled craftsman. The JW.org sign was inlaid into the existing wooden sign.

23

What Will U Spend For XMas This Year?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think most exjws are frugal when it comes to xmas.

what is your budget for gift giving?.

Sail Away

About $1,500 for seasonal decorations, entertaining, gifts for immediate family, gifts for extended non-JW family and friends, gift wrap, cards, etc. I missed Christmas for 42 years, so I don't mind going a bit overboard!

Merry Christmas!

65

Did you AWAKEN from the JWs by yourself?

by cultBgone in

jw
friends

i was thinking about how so many posters here on jwn are frustrated and frantic to help their loved ones get away from the brainwashing of jws, and how much advice is given about how to help family members and loved ones.

i considered my own leaving and that it was internal turmoil based on the teachings getting weirder and child abuse issues, to name just a few, and it made me wonder:.

did you self-awaken or were you assisted by the gentle proddings of a friend or family member?

Sail Away

My initial awakening was on my own, and was closely followed by getting a thorough education regarding TTATT. After decades of cognitive dissonance, I got to the point that I could not function, but I didn’t even know what cognitive dissonance was as yet! In mid-May 2011 I was at a service meeting. The part was about how important it was to do more in the ministry, because so many lives were involved. Well, that immediately, and I mean instantaneously, in my mind translated into a death sentence— Your children are going to die! I thought, “If one more person tells me my kids are going to die. . .” I just knew I could not hear those words one more time. I was later told that I had a shift in thought. That shift in thought dramatically changed my life for the better.

The pressure regarding my adult children had been mounting for years. My daughter walked away when she was 17 years old. An elder called to ask her to meet for a shepherding call, and she told me to tell him that she “respectfully declined”. She went off to college about six months later. My son was DF’d. He had gone through a nasty divorce from his JW wife and went off the deep end. At the time I agreed with his disfellowshipping based on his actions, but strongly felt that he should be receiving love and support rather than being kicked to the curb. It really bothered me that I was “allowed” to speak to my daughter freely (the elders said she would have to deal with her sins should she try to come back to Jehovah) and yet I wasn’t going to be able to speak to my son once he moved out of our home. My son and daughter had committed the same “sins”. One thing I knew to be certain, I was never going to shun my son.

I didn’t know what was going on yet, but I just couldn’t go to another meeting. I couldn’t pray either. It was like a light switch had been flipped off. My husband who left the organization 30 years before I did (but didn’t know TTATT) didn’t know what to think, but he didn’t question me. I just shut down, and he did all the grocery shopping, cooking and laundry for about six weeks. All of a sudden I wasn’t going to meetings after 42 years. I couldn’t even call in and listen. I needed time away from all the noise. I needed to rest, and I needed time to think and sort things through. I thought about all the doctrinal flip flops and serious personal issues caused by JW doctrine in my life and in the lives of people I had known for over four decades.

At the end of May we went away on vacation. We went sailing for 10 glorious days. For a few seconds I wondered how it might feel to live my life like that— no ‘studying the Bible’, no meetings, no field service, no schedule, not one single dress or pair of high heels—just living, breathing and enjoying the sun and wind on my face. I dismissed the thought. Not there yet.

June was a blur. Still no meetings, but I did travel a bit with a long-time JW sister and friend. (She is the only JW who still talks to me over three years later.) I seemed to be able to function as long as I was not home. If I was home I was on the couch with my dog Emma (see Your Favorite Dog Breed thread) and my cat Rocky. Somewhere along the way I switched into what I call observation mode, professionals call it dissociation. For the first time in over 30 years this sister really got on my nerves— her lips were spewing words about Jehovah and the New System, but I mostly focused on her bright red lipstick. Her life, by her own admission, is an absolute mess. And yet she does absolutely nothing, no changes, no decisions— she just leaves it in Jehovah’s hands. Her marital situation was one of my causes for concern. She is married to a DF’d bi-sexual man, but was not allowed to divorce him under the old definition of porneia. She was later told after a second offense that she then had scriptural grounds for divorce, but she felt it was too late for her to leave him. They are financially dependent on each other at this late stage in life.

I had promised my deceased DIL’s inactive mother that I would take her to the District Convention on the July 4 th weekend. I didn’t take notes for the first time ever. I don’t know why. I just didn’t. Observation mode— Why am I sitting here with this woman? I know she didn’t do anything to me, but why am I forced to be reminded of so much pain? . . . These Stepford JWs are just plain scary . . . “Overlapping generation”— “That’s Crap!” Just how many times are they going to tell me to be in my seat before the music starts, pay attention and take notes? . . . Listen. Learn. Obey.”

After the District Convention, still no meetings. I had volunteered to serve the C.O.’s lunch in mid-August well before the mid-May shift in thought. I was still in the “Let your yes mean yes” mode, and felt I could make myself go to the meetings, go out in service one morning and serve the lunch. I did serve the lunch, but that was all.

On the Monday following his visit, I got on the Internet and found this forum and the YUKU ex-JW forum. I started to do research on JW history, doctrine and cults. I read about the two-witness rule and pedophile issues in the organization and found Silent Lambs. I read JWFacts.org, Crisis of Conscience, Shepard the Flock of God and The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins all in about two weeks’ time.

I typed my first post on exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com entitled, “Help! I’m being stalked!” with shaking hands. I was stalked by local JWs nearly every day for five months straight, but there was no going back. I am no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I choose not to write a letter of disassociation, and I will certainly not attend any Judicial Committee meetings. I informed my elder hit squad (two elders who seemed to have been assigned to my defection) that I had an out-patient hospitalization in 2011, and I am still dealing with severe clinical depression, PTSD and caring for my mom who now has late-stage Lewy Body Dementia. I told him I just knew that my next hospitalization would be in-patient, and I don’t want to go there. I have not heard a word since playing the mental health card.